Upcoming balance changes #2

Freyja|ComPet
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:34 am

Re: Upcoming balance changes #2

Postby Freyja|ComPet » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:00 am

Lots of good comments, thanks, guys.

Okay, we have a raw version of changes.
Mostly this is everything that was mentioned previously but in addition, we think we need to increase mana cost for some abilities. Some abilities shouldn't be considered as for Fighter class, for example, "Mana Bomb" and "Cure" both abilities logically belongs to the Mage class.
Most of the builds don't care about managing their mana and just pick what they see the best without any restrictions, we want it to be changed in this patch and in a feature we'll review the influence of the Mojo and Endurance on the in-game experience.

That's it for now, we'll review and test current changes and as soon as we will be more confident of how final balance changes will look like we'll introduce them in here.

We ain't gonna touch buff damage this time, we'll fix some most wanted abilities + will buff under-powered so the buff damage should get out of a scope a bit

The effect of a lot of abilities (with effect over time) is reduced with one turn when they are cast without initiative (at the end of round) - Block, Battle Cry, Maim and so on...
I agree on that, we'll investigate and will see what we can do with it.


UPDATE:
Hello, we are excited to reveal upcoming balance changes with you guys!
Mostly this is finalized changes, but minor adjustments aren't excluded before update releases

Battle Cry
oldMP: 8, 8, 8, 8, 8
newMP: 10, 12, 14, 16, 18

Quick Attack
oldMP: 10, 10, 10, 10, 10
newMP: 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

Cure
oldMP: 16, 16, 16, 16, 16
newMP: 16, 17, 18, 19, 20

Mana Bomb
oldMP: 25, 25, 25, 25, 25
newMP: 30, 31, 32, 33, 34

Bite
oldMP: 8, 8, 8, 8, 8
newMP: 7, 7, 7, 7, 7

Claw
oldMP: 9, 9, 9, 9, 9
newMP: 8, 8, 8, 8, 8

Sleeper Parasite
oldDMG:
1 - 3 & 11 - 19
2 - 4 & 12 - 24
3 - 5 & 13 - 29
4 - 6 & 14 - 35
5 - 7 & 15 - 42
newDMG:
1 - 3 & 14 - 24
2 - 4 & 15 - 29
3 - 5 & 16 - 34
4 - 6 & 17 - 40
5 - 7 & 18 - 47

Headbutt
oldDMG:
24 - 36
28 - 43
32 - 50
36 - 57
40 - 64
newDMG:
19 - 31
23 - 38
27 - 45
31 - 52
35 - 59

Concussive Slam
oldDMG:
25 - 35
30 - 41
35 - 47
40 - 53
45 - 59
newDMG:
20 - 30
25 - 36
30 - 42
35 - 48
40 - 54


Vampire Bite
oldMP:10, 10, 10, 10, 10
newMP:15, 16, 17, 18, 19
oldDMG:
6 - 12 & 0.5 || 1
8 - 14 & 0.5 || 1
9 - 17 & 0.5 || 1
11 - 19 & 0.5 || 1
12 - 22 & 0.5 || 1
newDMG:
"9 - 18 & 0.5 || 1
10 - 20 & 0.5 || 1
11 - 23 & 0.5 || 1
13 - 25 & 0.5 || 1
15 - 28 & 0.5 || 1"

Tackle
oldDMG:
10 - 13
12 - 15
14 - 18
16 - 20
18 - 22
newDMG:
12 - 18
14 - 20
16 - 22
18 - 24
20 - 26

Mind Blast
oldDMG:
9 - 15
10 - 18
11 - 21
12 - 24
13 - 27
newDMG
9 - 15
10 - 18
11 - 21
12 - 24
13 - 27

Mocking Strike
oldDMG:
4 - 8
7 - 13
10 - 18
10 - 18
13 - 23
newDMG:
9 - 11
12 - 14
15 - 17
18 - 20
21 - 23


Block
oldMP: 10, 10, 10, 10, 10
newMP:15, 15, 15, 15, 15

Deadly Poison
oldMP:18, 18, 18, 18, 18
newMP:18, 19, 20, 21, 22
oldDMG:
1, increment 2, max 8
1, increment 2, max 9
1, increment 2, max 10
1, increment 2, max 11
1, increment 2, max 12
newDMG:
1, increment 2, max 8
1, increment 3, max 9
1, increment 4, max 10
1, increment 5, max 11
1, increment 6, max 12
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Treb
Posts: 139
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Location: USA

Re: Upcoming balance changes #2

Postby Treb » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:56 pm

miles wrote:Mind Battle is actually more useful since the change to the trinkets, as the potential spread in Mana is much greater than before, but it only has good potential when your pet has an extreme mana setup - high or low. I think it is overlooked because high level pets have a lot of easier options at their disposal, but it would be easier to carry interesting skills without the Panic block. (MB can great against some foes, worthless against others.)


In my opinion, mages (or "attuned") pets seem to be bottom of the food chain w/ the current system.. sure, you can do fairly well with hybrid mages depending on opponent, but I personally have not had a lot of success overall with a "pure mage" pet.

There are obvious spells (or "abilities") which were designed for the attuned class pets, and from what I can tell they are much the same in their rankings among the abilities as the attuned pets are among the other classes.. sadly unusable/underutilized.

Sorry guys, not trying to add more complication in a time where simplification is a priority, but it just seems to me there needs to be a more direct association between pet classes and the abilities.. not simply based on their individual attribute or modifier skill levels. For example, Mind Battle would be much more useful *and* logical if somehow an attuned pet could naturally utilize it "better" than the other classes -- other abilities that come to mind include: mana bomb, health parasite, mind blast, sleeper parasite and amnesia. There are other abilities which could share equal mastery among two or more classes such as battle cry for attuned/aggressive or block for attuned/defensive. Much the same concept as the existing pet stat point distribution.. attuned pets have advantage in mojo gain, defensive pets in endurance, aggressive in ferocity, and balanced would be the "hybrid" as I described.

-Treb
miles
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: Upcoming balance changes #2

Postby miles » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:49 pm

Raising the Mana cost of Mage style skills is good - I'm glad to hear about that. Right now, Mana Bomb is about the cheapest damage you can do (after rebate), and it gives you a lasting buff in the process. It should be way more expensive.

Boosting Mojo to high levels does not currently benefit Attuned pets the way boosting Ferocity helps Aggressive pets, but it could, so please do make some of those skills costly. Give Attuned pets practical access to some powerful skill sets via their massive mana regen advantage to finally compensate for their low Heath and Ferocity.

Is changing the max rebuff of debuff percentage for pets by class an option? Raise it from 10% to 15% for attuned and lower from 10% to 5% for Aggressive, leave Defensive and Balanced at 10%. Mage style pets should be better at blocking spells than others, and Beasts should be worse at it.

Peace, Miles
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Treb
Posts: 139
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Location: USA

Re: Upcoming balance changes #2

Postby Treb » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:58 am

miles wrote:Raising the Mana cost of Mage style skills is good - I'm glad to hear about that. Right now, Mana Bomb is about the cheapest damage you can do (after rebate), and it gives you a lasting buff in the process. It should be way more expensive.

Boosting Mojo to high levels does not currently benefit Attuned pets the way boosting Ferocity helps Aggressive pets, but it could, so please do make some of those skills costly. Give Attuned pets practical access to some powerful skill sets via their massive mana regen advantage to finally compensate for their low Heath and Ferocity.

Is changing the max rebuff of debuff percentage for pets by class an option? Raise it from 10% to 15% for attuned and lower from 10% to 5% for Aggressive, leave Defensive and Balanced at 10%. Mage style pets should be better at blocking spells than others, and Beasts should be worse at it.


Wish this forum template allowed "LIKE" tags for thread replies.. I couldn't agree more with everything Miles said here. -Treb
Freyja|ComPet
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:34 am

Re: Upcoming balance changes #2

Postby Freyja|ComPet » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:45 am

miles wrote:Is changing the max rebuff of debuff percentage for pets by class an option? Raise it from 10% to 15% for attuned and lower from 10% to 5% for Aggressive, leave Defensive and Balanced at 10%. Mage style pets should be better at blocking spells than others, and Beasts should be worse at it.
Peace, Miles


Hello again :)
I wouldn't say this changes would improve the experience.
Currently, we are looking forward to simplifying core mechanics as much as possible. It doesn't mean mechanics should be bad, flat and senseless, no, it means they should be very easy and intuitive to understand and get used to them.
Adding additional rules to the mechanics will increase it in difficulty.
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Treb
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Re: Upcoming balance changes #2

Postby Treb » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:15 am

Freyja|ComPet wrote:I wouldn't say this changes would improve the experience.
Currently, we are looking forward to simplifying core mechanics as much as possible[....]
Adding additional rules to the mechanics will increase it in difficulty.


Freyja, I've been on your side 99% since being on the forums...

I will simply reiterate three of the major aspects I feel that many of the other "serious" players share in this logic:

1. Yes, simplicity is ideal. This assures an equal "proving-grounds" for all players, new and old.
2. ENHANCING pet qualities based on their "class" will be a necessity whether sooner or later.
3. REMOVING OR REWORKING BUFF DAMAGE IS PRIORITY #1.
Freyja|ComPet
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:34 am

Re: Upcoming balance changes #2

Postby Freyja|ComPet » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:29 am

Treb wrote:Freyja, I've been on your side 99% since being on the forums...


Not anymore :D?
I'm saying that when you are fixing stuff you shouldn't be damaging something else...

1. Yes, simplicity is ideal. This assures an equal "proving-grounds" for all players, new and old.
2. ENHANCING pet qualities based on their "class" will be a necessity whether sooner or later.
3. REMOVING OR REWORKING BUFF DAMAGE IS PRIORITY #1.


Yea, agree with those. Can't promise that enchanting pet qualities will be in the next patch, but this is one of our main goals.
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Treb
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Re: Upcoming balance changes #2

Postby Treb » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:39 am

Freyja|ComPet wrote:
Treb wrote:Freyja, I've been on your side 99% since being on the forums...


Not anymore :D?
I'm saying that when you are fixing stuff you shouldn't be damaging something else...

1. Yes, simplicity is ideal. This assures an equal "proving-grounds" for all players, new and old.
2. ENHANCING pet qualities based on their "class" will be a necessity whether sooner or later.
3. REMOVING OR REWORKING BUFF DAMAGE IS PRIORITY #1.


Yea, agree with those. Can't promise that enchanting pet qualities will be in the next patch, but this is one of our main goals.


So at what part of this "fixing stuff" did Buff Damage IMMEDIATALY Start Dominating most "all" other aspects of competition? The only thing I have personally notice since Buff Dmg is your top1-30 rated players (with few exceptions) use an high aggro pet with 2-3-4 buff dmg trinkets. In the VERY BEST scenario.. in battle.. the non-buff appointment lucks out with ideal turns rotatations in the round and has maye 2 or 3 abilities to "minimize" buff damage as it is buffing.. To me these are the most depressing matches because if played optionally and if bonuses kick in enough during the match, you could drag that PKBuffer into stamina deficit bud sadly realise you can't regen enough mana/hp to continue thwarting their attacks.
Freyja|ComPet
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:34 am

Re: Upcoming balance changes #2

Postby Freyja|ComPet » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:24 pm

Hello, we are excited to reveal upcoming balance changes with you guys!
Mostly this is finalized changes, but minor adjustments aren't excluded before update releases

Battle Cry
oldMP: 8, 8, 8, 8, 8
newMP: 10, 12, 14, 16, 18

Quick Attack
oldMP: 10, 10, 10, 10, 10
newMP: 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

Cure
oldMP: 16, 16, 16, 16, 16
newMP: 16, 17, 18, 19, 20

Mana Bomb
oldMP: 25, 25, 25, 25, 25
newMP: 30, 31, 32, 33, 34

Bite
oldMP: 8, 8, 8, 8, 8
newMP: 7, 7, 7, 7, 7

Claw
oldMP: 9, 9, 9, 9, 9
newMP: 8, 8, 8, 8, 8

Sleeper Parasite
oldDMG:
1 - 3 & 11 - 19
2 - 4 & 12 - 24
3 - 5 & 13 - 29
4 - 6 & 14 - 35
5 - 7 & 15 - 42
newDMG:
1 - 3 & 14 - 24
2 - 4 & 15 - 29
3 - 5 & 16 - 34
4 - 6 & 17 - 40
5 - 7 & 18 - 47

Headbutt
oldDMG:
24 - 36
28 - 43
32 - 50
36 - 57
40 - 64
newDMG:
19 - 31
23 - 38
27 - 45
31 - 52
35 - 59

Concussive Slam
oldDMG:
25 - 35
30 - 41
35 - 47
40 - 53
45 - 59
newDMG:
20 - 30
25 - 36
30 - 42
35 - 48
40 - 54


Vampire Bite
oldMP:10, 10, 10, 10, 10
newMP:15, 16, 17, 18, 19
oldDMG:
6 - 12 & 0.5 || 1
8 - 14 & 0.5 || 1
9 - 17 & 0.5 || 1
11 - 19 & 0.5 || 1
12 - 22 & 0.5 || 1
newDMG:
"9 - 18 & 0.5 || 1
10 - 20 & 0.5 || 1
11 - 23 & 0.5 || 1
13 - 25 & 0.5 || 1
15 - 28 & 0.5 || 1"

Tackle
oldDMG:
10 - 13
12 - 15
14 - 18
16 - 20
18 - 22
newDMG:
12 - 18
14 - 20
16 - 22
18 - 24
20 - 26

Mind Blast
oldDMG:
9 - 15
10 - 18
11 - 21
12 - 24
13 - 27
newDMG
9 - 15
10 - 18
11 - 21
12 - 24
13 - 27

Mocking Strike
oldDMG:
4 - 8
7 - 13
10 - 18
10 - 18
13 - 23
newDMG:
9 - 11
12 - 14
15 - 17
18 - 20
21 - 23


Block
oldMP: 10, 10, 10, 10, 10
newMP:15, 15, 15, 15, 15

Deadly Poison
oldMP:18, 18, 18, 18, 18
newMP:18, 19, 20, 21, 22
oldDMG:
1, increment 2, max 8
1, increment 2, max 9
1, increment 2, max 10
1, increment 2, max 11
1, increment 2, max 12
newDMG:
1, increment 2, max 8
1, increment 3, max 9
1, increment 4, max 10
1, increment 5, max 11
1, increment 6, max 12
_________________________________________
Don't worry be happy drink pepsi be sexy!
miles
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: Upcoming balance changes #2

Postby miles » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:11 pm

Looking good, but no change to Mindblast damage? Both sets of figures are the same.

I hope Mana Bomb will be expensive enough - I doubt it - but overall these changes look pretty good.


Hey Treb, I hear you on the buff damage, however I think problem is not that it is too powerful. but that it is too easy - too many easy triggers and not enough effective counter-measures.

The re-balance should help as most of the big hits get nerfed one way or the other, making harder to drop huge hits. This will help with all overpowered trinket combos, not just Buff Damage, and make some of currently less effective skills much more useful as the damage gap is closer.

Let's see how it works :)

Peace, Miles

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