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Feedback on v1.5 - Trinkets

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:06 pm
by miles
Wow, this is a game-changer.

Certain issues aside (Aush is correct about the arena matching, especially at low levels) the possibilities are much more varied and the battles much more interesting. Throw out everything you know about setups and pet balance. The key to using trinkets is to coordinate them with a purpose, and have the pet's point balance and skill selection set to leverage that purpose.

I have now setup two of my three Level 28 pets to be effective in quite different ways, and I'm still thinking about the third. The boring defensive options are no longer easy - they are now harder to pull off and can be overwhelmed.

I have a few pets competitive at other levels, but putting up too many pets is a recipe for lots of losing. Lower level fights need much better balancing - maybe limit on the level or type of trinkets, and always match level to level. The low level fights should teach you how to improve with trinkets, but right now it is a buzz saw. At the upper levels, the fights just went crazy-wild; some new possibilities are just being explored and fights by pets spread a few levels apart are no problem.

Overall, this is looks like good directions, but definitely needs some tweaking. No surprise after such a big overhaul.

Peace, Miles (Stanley)

Re: Feedback on v1.5 - Trinkets

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:48 pm
by aush
Honestly, I think I could've filled the forum with specific complains, but I came to realization that there is a much bigger issue. Everything in this game is all over the place. There are bits here and there, but they do not connect. The game terribly lacks any sort of focus. One good example of it is the 1.5 ability changes: they have listed the changes but there was not exmplanation of why they did that and what they tried to achieve. And why do I think it's important? - because these changes are completely unrelated to the current state of the game. It is not like they was good or bad, they just don't do anything about the game, and that makes me think that the devs had no idea what they wanted to achieve. And you can see that in everything - how can we talk about which things are good and which are bad if there is no clear idea of what the game wants to be?

And the trinket system unfortunately made things worse. It brought so few to game, while taking away some good parts, like pet achetypes, for example - there used to be 4 (aggro, balanced aggro, balanced and def), now it's 2. But in itself even that is not a problem, the questions are: how do you make it fun for people to start playing it, and, more importantly, continue doing so. And in it's current state the game completely fails to answer these questions.

There are just too many opposite directions the game is going for. Take for example the way you interact with your pets. The way you get more slots for pets by leveling your buildings, the reason you play forest (to acquire more different pets), the way arena rating works (all level pets are in the same ladder), everything was telling you that the focus is to have more different pets. Now with the way the trinket system was implemented, the game sort of tells you to focus on few pets and there is basically no reason play with many different pets. If the game doesn't have an idea of how it wants to be played, how players are supposed to?

It's a shame that there are many things which could be staples for exploration and fun, like difference in pets, archetypes, abilities, etc., but the game basically makes no use of it. And because it lacks a solid base, random features like trinkets do not do any good.

Re: Feedback on v1.5 - Trinkets

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:13 pm
by RickEngland
I think the purpose of this update attempted to (or at least started too) address 3 issues. Force us towards the Arena, generate revenue from trinkets, and try and balance the pets better.

Let's face it, we're the testers. MA already know from EU that players do the unexpected. I guess it would be almost impossible for them to assume what we might do with the update. Although surely with 4 trinkets per pet they must know the limits we can achieve with pet setups. I think they threw it at us, and will attempt to balance it later.

It's nice there's some basic crafting introduced with the trinket shards though, another activity.

However fight outcomes feel to me very "system driven" now. It's taking a while to get used to the trinkets, and each day that passes I feel I'm understanding it better. Although I'm just throwing pets in the Arena and hoping for the best to win boxes, rather than believe the setups have merit. Because when you throw in the handicapping (wins v losses balance MA tries to achieve), then add-on the buffs.....the outcome is completely

Many of the fights are funny though.

I do agree, that the game is lacking and needs more content, I've always felt "a-quick-win" would be ped forest. But it would need something to loot that would make you want to play it.

I've accepted the game has a long way to go
. We got the beta way too early because MA got $2M bucks from their own customer base and investors rightly demanded the game (the pressure was on). We got the trinkets early because it's approaching 3 years since MA started selling the deeds, and investors demanded action.

Once MA starts paying out the revenue the pressure will be lifted somewhat and maybe they can stop and think for a while. I reckon they spent 2 years with concept art, and ideas, before any coding was started.

So let's face it, we don't have a full game yet, I don't think so anyway. We got to stop kidding ourselves, and really look at the game in two years from now.

On the plus side, we're levelling everything and getting ready for anything they want to throw at us. Think of it like the first EU players that walked on Calypso....smiles. It is, what it is.

Am I happy? "Don't worry about stuff you can't control", is one of my golden rules in life.


edit: I'll change that too..."try not worry about stuff you can't control". grins.

Re: Feedback on v1.5 - Trinkets

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:34 pm
by miles
Damn forum - logged me out and lost my post. That was some good feedback, maybe I'll try again later.

Re: Feedback on v1.5 - Trinkets

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:23 pm
by miles
[EDITED] Forgot the 4 current levels, so I've modified it a bit[/EDITED]

To help make the Lower level battles more fair and fun, and to make the (un AND)common items useful, make a change along the lines of the following:

Levels 1-2:
Common Trinkets only
Match same level only

Levels 3-4:
Up to 2 Uncommon Trinkets
Match same level only

Levels 5-7:
Up to 2 Rare Trinkets
Max 1 level span

Levels 8- 10:
Up to 2 Epic Trinkets
Max 1 level span

Levels 10-13:
Up to 4 Epic Trinkets

Extend this kind of ramping up process when the higher level items are introduced.

Peace, Miles

Re: Feedback on v1.5 - Trinkets

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:47 pm
by Merlin
No need to limit the trinkets, just open up the matching algorithm and match pets with trinkets/epic trinkets against higher level pets or other pets with trinkets and only against equal level if no other matches can be found.
I kinda like that my lvl4 now gets matched against lvl5 but still has a good chance of winning due to trinkets and similarily that fights with a level 30 against a level26 still leave the level 26 a reasonable chance.

Thought buff damage needs to be fixed to yield the amounts listed and not add up normal/crit/buffdamage multiple times leading to possible 600+ damage hits in a single round like it currently does.

Re: Feedback on v1.5 - Trinkets

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:28 am
by RickEngland
As funny as some of the fights are now, lets be honest with ourselves. The trinkets were supposed to be an enhancement, not double or treble your

I think rather than MA trying to work out how to best balance the buffs. A simple solution would be to limit the trinket allocation to 4 types per pet.

I mean to say:

I x Epic, 1 x Rare, 1 x uncommon, 1 x common.

As 4 x EPIC rings is somewhat overdone.

Let's not forget we need the new players to stay. If we bombard them with 4 EPIC rings, they might simply leave.
Then try and best balance it around those reduced limits.

Are we really going for 4 x Mythical rings per pet in the future? The setups need to be sensible.


Re: Feedback on v1.5 - Trinkets

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:02 pm
by miles
I've had second thoughts about my suggestion too :)

I like the followup suggestions, and ultimately smarter matching is the ideal solution (taking more factors into account). Trinkets will need some tweaks for sure - early days.

Peace, Miles

Re: Feedback on v1.5 - Trinkets

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:55 am
by Droops
Merlin wrote: only against equal level

Imo (for now due to all changes) this makes sence.

The difference in lvls can be a go or no go ;) trinkets imho are no issue since i lost with my stongest pets from ones without trinkets.
The difference in lvls need to be looked over, several Pets are now dominating about +9 lvls and ofc. also expands available lvl of pets in the arena resulting in more fights.

Re: Feedback on v1.5 - Trinkets

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:34 pm
by Dithart|ComPet
Thanks everyone for the inputs! They sparked a big discussion in dev team! Indeed there are situations that are not quite the definition of fun (i.e. matched against way too much more powerful opponent than your pet), and this needs adjusting. We are now considering the suggestions above.

2aush - I, as a dev, must agree with most of what you said. We've came to the realization of that a while ago. Sometimes it is not easy to see the bigger picture when you are constantly buried in smaller tasks. We are already addressing these issues for a while, and I foresee the game to greatly improve, and it's parts to work together in a better, more natural-flowing, seamless way. As well as better explanation of what we are doing through patch-notes and communication on forum.