No more being able to deny fights

Venture
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Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:20 am

No more being able to deny fights

Postby Venture » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:37 pm

I love it, you're tossed right into a fight like it should be. Great job on the Arena! I am playing a lot again because of this.
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RickEngland
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Re: No more being able to deny fights

Postby RickEngland » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:02 pm

It's good move that. I agree.

Although winning in the "Arena" is still very much focused on players who have the most stamina, then heal, heal, heal.

Since they can dispel with both Lick Wounds and Cure,
Add to that block, and maybe battle cry and they've got a whole stack of buffs to try and remove.

Even throwing tackle at them to push back their 'mediate' only causes them a little problem.
I tried using tackle on Cure too to experiment, it makes a little dent.
Then body slam is tricky too, as with so many opponent active buffs its not clear which one you're trying to remove.
Mortal strike is taken out quick with cure, they've lost nothing really if running other multi heal buffs.

Every attempt at trying to dispel any of the above, is a lost "big attack" move. So it comes down to stamina.
Even then it's a lost cause, because health parasite is easily dispelled. So even thinking you can outwit them taking their health gains won't work. The other problem there is health parasite will fail to stick more often than not against a high stamina pet. I've tried holding back with that ability until near the end of rounds, throw it at them and it 70% of the time it won't stick and is wasted right at the critical time it's needed to work.

It's still not a battling game, its still very much unbalanced, even though the devs increased heal costs and lowered turns on attack abilities. There's simply too much protection options.

You can take a healing pet down fairly easy in raids, as you're playing against a 2 year old computer mind, but no chance human on human.

So what's the solution?

Limited heal options on Arena?
Better counters against healing pets?

I think MA need to fight each other one on one in their offices, take 2 hours out of developing and TEST it.
Load up a level 15 or 20+ pet with higher stamina, all heals+ lick wounds, block and battle cry and try and take it down.

I'm sure eventually they'll figure out a solution, although we're not quite there yet.

Now maybe a good move might be to dispel healing buffs with attacking options. Say "headbutt" for example what if that would remove a multi heal buff? It's finding ways to counter the additional heals, not the main "first" heal.

Then say add that on few attack abilities. Needs testing of course.


Rick
Last edited by RickEngland on Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Merlin
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:42 pm

Re: No more being able to deny fights

Postby Merlin » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:34 pm

RickEngland wrote:It's good move that. I agree.

Although winning in the "Arena" is still very much focused on players who have the most stamina, then heal, heal, heal.

Since they can dispel with both Lick Wounds and Cure,
Add to that block, and maybe battle cry and they've got a whole stack of buffs to try and remove.

Even throwing tackle at them to push back their 'mediate' only causes them a little problem.
I tired using tackle on Cure too to experiment, it makes a little dent.
Then body slam is tricky too, as with so many opponent active buffs its not clear which one you're trying to remove.
Mortal strike is taken out quick with cure, they've lost nothing really if running other multi heal buffs.

Every attempt at trying to dispel any of the above, is a lost "big attack" move. So it comes down to stamina.
Even then it's a lost cause, because health parasite is easily dispelled. So even thinking you can outwit them taken their health gains won't work. The other problem there is health parasite will fail to stick more often than not against a high stamina pet. I've tried holding back with that ability until near the end of rounds, throw it at them and it 70% of the time it won't stick and is wasted right at the critical time it's needed to work.

It's still not a battling game, its still very much unbalanced, even though the devs increased heal costs and lowered turns on attack abilities. There's simply too much protection options.

You can take a healing pet down fairly easy in raids, as you're playing against a 2 year old computer mind, but no chance human on human.

So what's the solution?

Limited heal options on Arena?
Better counters against healing pets?

I think MA need to fight each other one on one in their offices, take 2 hours out of developing and TEST it.
Load up a level 15 or 20+ pet with higher stamina, all heals+ lick wounds, block and battle cry and try and take it down.

I'm sure eventually they'll figure out a solution, although we're not quite there yet.

Now maybe a good move might be to dispel healing buffs with attacking options. Say "headbutt" for example what if that would remove a multi heal buff? It's finding ways to counter the additional heals, not the main "first" heal.

Then say add that on few attack abilities. Needs testing of course.


Rick

There is some tricks to beat strong defence pets, if you want you can try to setup the strongest defense you can and challange me to overcome it - keep in mind there is different pet classes as well - if you have a really strong defence build maybe its time to bring your most agressive class to the fight... ;)
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RickEngland
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Re: No more being able to deny fights

Postby RickEngland » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:06 pm

The fact that "all" arena battles I've had today were against healing pets, proves it's the only way to guarantee a win.

Besides I've never run a full-heal-setup, so even if we tested a few things, it might take a few goes to get a feel for it. I don't have 40 level stamina pet though...lol.

A really aggressive pet will have low stamina as it increase by 1.0 on those pets. Possible chance with Balanced pet, but those pets only increase stam at 1.5.

I've loaded up a pet before with ignite, poison, sleeper parasite, mortal strike.....a whole list of buff attacks, it's still pretty useless against a heal pet due to heal dispels.

Now if you didn't have lick wounds, I reckon I could take you out.

Also given lot more rounds, It is possible to drain a healing pet through mana cost, but in the current setup the rain will always come first.

My real concern is not lost battles, I only use Arena for testing anyway since I learnt that high residence level gives low point gains. It's players walking away because they see it as unbalanced and futile that worries me.

I try a few more setups against you though a bit later.....kids need attention for now.

Laters :-)

Rick
Merlin
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:42 pm

Re: No more being able to deny fights

Postby Merlin » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:33 pm

If you try to win with an offensive defence class pet against a defensive defence class pet that of course is not an easy task especially with the current regeneration/lick wounds bug still being ingame - it is however possible with the right ability combination. Of course this will make you vulnerable against pets which are not fully defence.

An full agressive class pet doesnt need much endurance if it goes against a full defense pet the defense pet will be toast - the damage output of a full agressive pet is higher then what can be healed - there is of course setups that such pets will certainly loose out against too - all pets have their weaknesses.

The reason why you see so many defensive pets is mainly because they used to be overpowered and thats why everyone went with them - this however is no longer the case so you will see more balanced and agressive pets again as well as attuned.
NotSure
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:52 am

Re: No more being able to deny fights

Postby NotSure » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:49 pm

The game is in soft launch for now and there is more to do for the balance.
1. For me, at first I looked at this game as some sort of "rock–paper–scissors" game, but for now it's not. At least, the "Balance" class doesn't help to get balanced game - gives you more distribution points. If you feel Defensive pets as too strong now, after some more penalties against them, the next unbalanced class will be Balanced.
2. There are still a very few players in the arena. Without a possibility to reject arena battles, it's common to battle against same opponent in a row. If you win - he flee, if you lose - you flee. That leads to even less battles than before.
3. There isn't a way to test your pet against a real opponents (the forest sucks). If you distribute XP points of your pet in a wrong way - your pet become useless and because it need a time to build another, a lot of peoples gives up.
4. Without pet market there isn't a real chance to make even few PEDs without spending your PEDs (no "sweat", "fruit" hook).

For me, some possible solutions may be:
1. If you can't choose your battles, give the pets at least two sets of abilities - one set against a specific class and another set against the rest of classes.
2. Give the "friends" a possibility just to test in battles, without gaining XP and without losing rank. And let we test ours pet's abilities with temporary XP distribution. For example, if I have a pet with some not distributed XP, I will want to have an option to do a series of test "friend challenges" with a different XP distributions and at the end, when I feel comfortable, to fix my pet's XP distribution.

I'm sorry for my bad English, but I hope you understand what I mean.
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Princess|ComPet
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Location: Unicorn Island

Re: No more being able to deny fights

Postby Princess|ComPet » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:59 am

Everyone,

We love that you all connect and talk with each other about ComPet, that's why the forum is here in the first place. But keep it mind to keep the posts related to the title. If you want to discuss something that is still related but not entirely just make a new thread : )

Just wanted to send out a reminder once again.

Hope you like the changes we've made in the Arena.
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RickEngland
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Re: No more being able to deny fights

Postby RickEngland » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:25 pm

Smiles at Princess.

A good open debate will drift around the original subject.

Player A: "Yeah cool, I really like that no deny too".
Player B: "I like it, but it opens up other issues"

Player A: "Would you like to comment why?"
Player B: "I can't, it's not entirely 100% connected to the original statement, the statement didn't actually invite debate".

Player A: "What replies do you think qualify?"
Player B: "Yes I like it, or no I don't like it, it's pretty limited"

Player A: "What percentage in relation to the thread do you think qualifies for a response"
Players B: "Well' 'entirely' is 100% = completely, wholly, totally fully"

Player A "Are you taking the p*ss?"
Player B "I don't think they want to hear it"

Player A: "Why not?"
Player B: "Because they know what's wrong with it, and would rather you didn't discuss it, until they fix it"

Player A: "You can discuss it in another thread though"
Player B: "Are you taking the p*ss?"

Player A: "Look man, the op wrote he loves it, then you write things about the game that needs more attention"
Player B: "you think it should've been left as a 'love-the-game' thread?"

Player A: "Exactly"
Player B: You think I should avoid feedback?

Player A: "Well who knows, villages can get raided while you're at work you know"
Player B: "They wouldn't do that would they?"

Player A: "don't bite the hand that feeds you"
Player B: "Is that the same hand that feeds them?"

Player A: "you haven't even deposited in 'this' game yet"
Player B: "That's off-topic...lol. I did try though it was in Swedish"

Player A: "That Princess is really pretty I reckon in RL"
Player B: "It's probably the CEO daughter, I'd watch what you say"

Player A: "This is getting silly now"
Player B: "Exactly, and it's way off topic.....ha,ha,ha"


Smiles at Princess, have a good day.

Rick
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Princess|ComPet
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Location: Unicorn Island

Re: No more being able to deny fights

Postby Princess|ComPet » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:22 pm

RickEngland wrote:Smiles at Princess.

A good open debate will drift around the original subject.

Player A: "Yeah cool, I really like that no deny too".
Player B: "I like it, but it opens up other issues"

Player A: "Would you like to comment why?"
Player B: "I can't, it's not entirely 100% connected to the original statement, the statement didn't actually invite debate".

Player A: "What replies do you think qualify?"
Player B: "Yes I like it, or no I don't like it, it's pretty limited"

Player A: "What percentage in relation to the thread do you think qualifies for a response"
Players B: "Well' 'entirely' is 100% = completely, wholly, totally fully"

Player A "Are you taking the p*ss?"
Player B "I don't think they want to hear it"

Player A: "Why not?"
Player B: "Because they know what's wrong with it, and would rather you didn't discuss it, until they fix it"

Player A: "You can discuss it in another thread though"
Player B: "Are you taking the p*ss?"

Player A: "Look man, the op wrote he loves it, then you write things about the game that needs more attention"
Player B: "you think it should've been left as a 'love-the-game' thread?"

Player A: "Exactly"
Player B: You think I should avoid feedback?

Player A: "Well who knows, villages can get raided while you're at work you know"
Player B: "They wouldn't do that would they?"

Player A: "don't bite the hand that feeds you"
Player B: "Is that the same hand that feeds them?"

Player A: "you haven't even deposited in 'this' game yet"
Player B: "That's off-topic...lol. I did try though it was in Swedish"

Player A: "That Princess is really pretty I reckon in RL"
Player B: "It's probably the CEO daughter, I'd watch what you say"

Player A: "This is getting silly now"
Player B: "Exactly, and it's way off topic.....ha,ha,ha"


Smiles at Princess, have a good day.

Rick


Lol Rick, clever.

I am just trying to keep it in order and organized ; )
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I eat rainbows.
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RickEngland
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:27 pm

Re: No more being able to deny fights

Postby RickEngland » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:15 am

Smiles, I promise to be good (well I will try hard to be) :-)

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